Is Atheism Devolving Into A Cult?

A place to discuss non-Deistic Freethinking ideologies such as Agnosticism, Atheism, etc.
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Postby gnomon » Tue May 01, 2012 1:33 pm

siti wrote:I think the recent manifestation of "New Atheism" is certainly more of a psychosocial response to the anti-scientific position taken by the fundamentalist ID crowd than a genuine philosophical or scientific position (I don't know if that makes it a cult).

Historically, whenever the power of mainstream religion wanes, Atheism---along with a plethora of marginal theisms---will pop up to take advantage of the moral vacuum. In the absence of Inquisitions and burning stakes, some of those loud & proud upstarts may become obnoxious in their freedom of speech. But I find most of the New Atheists to be eminently rational & reasonable in their justifiable critiques of authoritarian religious beliefs. As Siti noted, such criticisms shouldn't be offensive to Deists, unless their faith is based on authority, such as the Church or the Bible.

I just finished a book about a publicized personal (non-philosophical) quarrel between 18th century philosophers David Hume and J.J. Rousseau. At one point Hume was the English ambassador to France. Since Paris was then a focal point of the pro-science, anti-religion European "Enlightenment" movement, Hume was able to attend salons with dozens of now famous enlightenment era "philosophes", artists, scientists, and public figures.

Due to his empirical & skeptical writings, Hume had been accused of being an Atheist, but he expressed skepticism toward both religion and atheism. He was always coy about his specific beliefs, but he may have been more like a Deist than an Atheist. At one salon, he said that he didn't believe in Atheists because he had never seen one [ probably an allusion to the typical Atheist argument against God ]. One leading philosophe laughed at Hume's naivete, and pointed to fifteen avowed Atheists sitting at the table with him, << and three who hadn't made up their minds >>; presumably Agnostics.

Historian Edward Gibbon, another attendee at the salon noted with distaste << "the intolerant zeal of those philosophes who "laughed at the skepticism of Hume, preached the tenets of atheism with the bigotry of dogmatists, and damned all believers with ridicule and contempt." >> By contrast, in his Natural History of Religion, Hume argued that << Most of humankind could no more live without belief in deities than without belief in causality. >> Ironically, some atheist scientists are now arguing that Causation, the fundamental axiom of Science, is an illusion. :ympeace:
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Postby Cosmicanomaly » Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:56 pm

I don't quite understand this animosity between atheists and deists. I don't know whether to describe myself as an agnostic with leanings towards deism or a deist that doesn't really care that much but either way I do tend to think there was at some point some intelligence that set everything in motion. However since that intelligence is apparently either gone or not interested in us, I don't really see how it matters if you believe in it or not.
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Postby Dad » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:30 pm

I agree with you, Cosmicanomaly. The animosity does not come from our members. Re-read this post and check out the link, then decide where to lay the blame:

Several of our people went to an atheist site over a period of a couple of weeks seeking discussion the same as you are seeking discussion here. They were greeted with unbounded hostility and derision, their posts censored and they were thrown out. This is what prompted this topic. I will see if I can dig up some of the fracas for you, but I think most of it was reported over on the Unified Deism site.

This may have been just a few hardline atheists, but who do we go to for sensible and well-mannered discussion?

I don't think you've been treated like that here, have you?


Here it is, in some of its glory:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4656
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Postby gnomon » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:35 pm

Cosmicanomaly wrote: However since that intelligence is apparently either gone or not interested in us, I don't really see how it matters if you believe in it or not.

I agree that faith in the Deist G*D is no more necessary than faith in Nature. But if that deity created this world, it has invested something of value, and has a right to expect some interest in return. Unfortunately, we have no way of knowing the value of the investment, or what the rate of interest (loyalty, love?) is. So we must simply fulfill our part of the implicit bargain in good faith.

Like the faithful servant in the biblical parable of the talents, even though we know that Nature/Life is not always fair, we must simply do the best we can with whatever talents [ability] we have---without expecting a just reward, when none has been promised. The only other alternative is futile whining about the injustice of it all. :ympeace:



Parable of the Talents :
<< He also who had received the one talent [money] came and said, "Lord, I knew you that you are a hard man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you did not scatter. I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the earth. Behold, you have what is yours."

But his lord answered him, "You wicked and slothful servant. You knew that I reap where I didn't sow, and gather where I didn't scatter. You ought therefore to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I should have received back my own with interest. Take away therefore the talent from him, and give it to him who has the ten talents. For to everyone who has will be given, and he will have abundance, but from him who doesn't have, even that which he has will be taken away. Throw out the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.>>

— Matthew 25:24–30,
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