• God: Interaction or Intervention

    God: Interaction or Intervention

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Trinion Wheel

 

The Trinion Contradictions demonstrate how a design, detailed arrangement, or established plan, negates the idea of individual power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate. It also negates the idea of direct intervention or the need to request such intervention.

In addition, the ability to act at one's own discretion would ultimately alter any established plan and void any such advanced arrangement or design due to what is known about “cause and effect”.

Any intervention would then negate the assumed reasons behind free will. Aid would not and could not be rendered by way of prayer if a plan were in place. Such actions would negate free will and would alter any established plan.

The Trinion Contradictions clearly demonstrate that Free Will, Destiny, and Intervention cannot and do not coexist and that one cannot equal the other.

Deist Reflection

Thomas Paine called God his "friend" (1). Consider the following: Reason is our friend. Logic is our friend. Nature is our friend. Why would "God" not be our friend as well? These friends are personal to us, but not "personal" by way of either intervention or interaction.

We love a sunset or the wind in our face. These are expressions of the God that we love. When we think about it this way, we see that we can love God or his creation, but that this emotion does not equate to intervention or reciprocation by either God or Creation.

Thomas Paine also said “All the tales of miracles, with which the Old and New Testament are filled, are fit only for impostors to preach and fools to believe.”(1) This is important to note because by definition, a miracle is "an extraordinary event manifesting divine intervention in human affairs". The idea of miricles is seen throughout most all organized religion.

Yet, prayer is more often than not, a solemn request to God himself. Paine was right when he said that “a man does not serve God when he prays, for it is himself he is trying to serve”. We can know this to be true by understanding that if God saw fit to intervene, it would either ruin his plan, or infringe upon whatever choice was being made that needed to be altered.

The Trinion Contradictions helps to prove this.

References

1 - Paine, T., & Conway, M. D. (1894). The Writings of Thomas Paine, collected and edited by Moncure Daniel Conway. New York: G. P. Putnam.

About David Robertson

Considered a polymath, David is a speaker, a researcher, a writer, and Deist. David holds a Master’s of Science in Leadership and graduated summa cum laude with a B.S. in both a nationally-recognized program of Leadership and in Security Management. He also holds supporting certificates in Homeland Security and Operational Leadership with additional training in similar disciplines.

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  • Guest - Judy

    This video and concept make sense. Just looking into Deism. I guess the age-old question is Why am I here, and what is my relationship to this higher power? What, if anything do I have the ability to control...or is this life just an aimless roller coaster ride??

    from Florida, USA
  • Guest - Ron

    On prayer, is not that prayer changes things or that we have two tell God what we want and thus change things. Its more like we need to pray , that is we need to feel the numinous, the spiritual. Prayer is for us not for God. In addition I fail to see how prayer denies free will. The way I see it God, or the creator or the power that is primordial and primeval first and uncaused cause knows in fact S/He/It is knowledge, understanding and wisdom, among a myriad of other things. Thus we can say, in my belief, that what we call God is Omniscient. H/She/It knowing as I what we want an also what we truly need and it's best for us. Obviously God does not need for us to pray to It/Him/Her. However, we don't inherently know anything and need to learn but also to feel like we are communicating with the All Knowing Author of existence, so we need to pray, Of course we do not have to beg but thanking the Creator, is something that can be very positive for us. But if out of my free will I decide to pray and thank my Maker, how can I be . negating my free will? As far as God's Plan, if it exists, surely, if we have free will like every day experience suggests we do. We are not destined to anything, unless the Superior Being who is Omni Salient has found a way in that Omnisapience, to both destined us and preserve our free will. So while, in my belief, your Trinion is possibly true, is not necessarily so. Thus it does not really prove. , that prayer and free will flare contradictory, although some types of prayer might. Also plans of a Superior Being might be able to not violate free will in ways we can't fathom,though I fully grant that this seems to be less likely

  • Guest - Lisa

    A really interesting line of enquiry is "What have you seen or felt that leads you to believe or not believe in God." Unfortunately, it's a hard one to find someone to have it with. Most conversations seem to center around social dominance adherence to social constructs.

    I find it useful to think about what the person/persons perceptions were that caused them to believe something.

    People have experienced things that lead them to believe in free will, prayer and destiny and have grouped these things into an overarching conception of God because that in some way seems right. Perhaps because they represent different orders of organization of events outside of our ultimate control.

    For instance, free will rests on the environment you are living in and the ability you have to consider possible reactions to that environment. How much free will do you have to fly? What are your choice of actions within a war zone or under a dictatorship? Given our biological underpinnings, how much latitude do we really have? Unless you believe we all choose our incarnations; ultimately all things we are and are capable/incapable of are gifted to us.

    If you aren't allowed access to the ideas of others, you may never even know that other reactions are even available to you. We love the two sided argument, and are amazed by someone who comes up with a third. So, maybe destiny is an attempt to reconcile free will with living in a world of others of at least a modicum of free will.

    If prayer works and you are praying for rain and your neighbor is praying for a sunny day....

    One thing I've noticed is that while I find logic soothing, there is the problem of paradoxes. Something can be logically true and not actually true (Possibly the problem occurs at the defining stage--If x is x) or something can be true that shouldn't exist. I've noticed that when I see a logical paradox it's time to look closer at the argument.

    It seems like on a very low resolution level you can assert that God is of a much greater level of complexity than us. The complex realities contained in a world with a God would have to be as complex given God exists inside it--or is it. Apparent paradoxes like prayer vs free will are an illusion of a limited thought process and awareness.

  • You are right in the idea that it puts a lot of responsibility on ourselves. But that is also why so many Deists are so independent. I guess I never understood the "lost child" position of most religions. And no, I don't think exploration of the metaphysical is contradictory. In fact, I would say it's necessary. However, I am not quite sure what you mean by exploit in this regard. Knowledge comes from everywhere, if we are willing to view it. Our goal is to learn, learn, and learn. Question with boldness... everything! For me that includes even my own conclusions.

  • Guest - Judy

    Thanks Dave, that makes sense. I think basically, try and be what you perceive yourself to be, which sort of dictates your actions (free will). Your actions will then result in like circumstances - cause and effect...our power is evidenced by the decisions/actions we focus upon. This puts an enormous amount of responsibility on us individually in that we truly do, in a fashion, reap what we sow. Obviously I am one who does want to pursue the riddle..and continue to seek answers. The metaphysics angle and the presence of this superior intelligence (God) within, and if/how to exploit such..seems to be a true challenge in Deism -- is such cotraindicative ??? :) By the way, this keeps rejecting my email address noting "invalid email."

    from Florida, USA